Legislature(2003 - 2004)

03/31/2004 09:05 AM Senate FIN

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                              MINUTES                                                                                         
                     SENATE FINANCE COMMITTEE                                                                                 
                          March 31, 2004                                                                                      
                              9:05 AM                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
TAPES                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SFC-04 # 64, Side A                                                                                                             
SFC 04 # 64, Side B                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                              
CALL TO ORDER                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Gary Wilken convened  the meeting at approximately 9:05 AM.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
PRESENT                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Lyda Green, Co-Chair                                                                                                    
Senator Gary Wilken, Co-Chair                                                                                                   
Senator Con Bunde, Vice Chair                                                                                                   
Senator Fred Dyson                                                                                                              
Senator Ben Stevens                                                                                                             
Senator Lyman Hoffman                                                                                                           
Senator Donny Olson                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Also  Attending:   LINDA  HALL,  Director,  Division  of  Insurance,                                                          
Department  of  Community and  Economic  Development;  JANET  SIETZ,                                                            
Staff  to Representative  Norm  Rokeberg;  LUCKY SCHULTZ,  Staff  to                                                            
Senator  Dyson;   BRUCE  TANGEMAN,   Fiscal  Analyst,  Division   of                                                            
Legislative Finance;  CHERYL FRASCA, Director, Office  of Management                                                            
and Budget, Office of the Governor                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Attending  via  Teleconference:     There  were  no  teleconference                                                           
participants.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
SUMMARY INFORMATION                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SB 357-INSURANCE                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
The Committee  heard from the sponsor,  another legislator,  and the                                                            
Department of  Community and Economic Development.  An amendment was                                                            
adopted and the bill was held in Committee.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SJR  3-CONST AM: APPROPRIATION/SPENDING LIMIT                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The Committee  heard from the sponsor,  the Division of Legislative                                                             
Finance,  and the Office  of Management and  Budget. Six  amendments                                                            
were  considered  and  five  were  adopted.  The bill  was  held  in                                                            
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SB 366-STATE SALES TAX                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
This bill was  scheduled but not heard. Senator B.  Stevens informed                                                            
that an updated fiscal note was received, which he would review.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     CS FOR SENATE BILL NO. 357(L&C)                                                                                            
     "An  Act relating  to the  regulation of  insurance,  insurance                                                            
     licenses,   qualifications  of  insurance  producers,   surplus                                                            
     lines,  fraud  investigations,  electronic   transactions,  and                                                            
     compliance  with  federal   law  and national   standards;  and                                                            
     providing for an effective date."                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This  was the first  hearing  for this  bill in  the Senate  Finance                                                            
Committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken stated  this bill, sponsored by the Senate Labor and                                                            
Commerce  Committee, "is  known as  the insurance  omnibus bill  and                                                            
contains numerous to insure  that State statutes are consistent with                                                            
federal law, model act standards and guidelines."                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
LINDA  HALL,   Director,  Division   of  Insurance,  Department   of                                                            
Community  and Economic Development,  deferred  to Senator  Bunde to                                                            
introduce the bill.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde  testified   that  the  Senate  Labor   and  Commerce                                                            
Committee  sponsored  this  bill at  the  request of  the  Murkowski                                                            
Administration.  He  also  characterized   this  legislation  as  an                                                            
insurance  omnibus  bill  and  a  "technical   clean-up"  bill  that                                                            
proposes  numerous  changes  to  Title  21 of  Alaska  Statutes.  He                                                            
explained this  bill would insure that the State is  consistent with                                                            
federal law and the National  Association of Insurance Commissioners                                                            
model act standards and  guidelines. He noted this legislation would                                                            
update   procedures  and   transactions  within   the  Division   of                                                            
Insurance.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde listed six key elements of the bill as follows.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     1. provides for electronic communication                                                                                   
     2.  provides for  changes in  the reinsurance  capabilities  in                                                            
     Alaska                                                                                                                     
     3.  implements  recommendations   for  licensing  revisions  as                                                            
     suggested  by National Association  of Insurance Commissioners                                                             
     4.  makes  changes in  the  liability  for civil  damages  when                                                            
     filing a report concerning fraudulent acts                                                                                 
     5.   contains  provisions that  clarify that  a guarantee  fund                                                            
     deposit is required for title insurance companies                                                                          
     6.  makes  changes  to taxes  and  late  penalties to  be  more                                                            
     consistent with Department of Revenue statutes.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde  summarized  this  bill  would "promote  consistency                                                             
between  Alaska and  other  states,  should promote  more  efficient                                                            
operation."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Amendment #1:  This amendment inserts a new bill section  on page 2,                                                            
following line 11 to read as follows.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     Sec. 2. AS 21.07.010(b) is amended to read:                                                                                
          (b) A contract between a participating health care                                                                    
     provider and a managed  care entity that offers a group managed                                                            
     care plan may not contain a provision that                                                                                 
                (1) has as its predominant purpose the creation of                                                              
     direct  financial incentives  to the  health care provider  for                                                            
     withholding  covered health  care services  that are  medically                                                            
     necessary;  nothing  in this  paragraph shall  be construed  to                                                            
     prohibit  a  contract  between   a participating   health  care                                                            
     provider  and a managed care entity from containing  incentives                                                            
     for  efficient  management  of  the  utilization  and  cost  of                                                            
     covered health care services;                                                                                              
                (2) requires the provider to contract for all                                                                   
     products  that are currently offered or that  may be offered in                                                            
     the future by the managed care entity; or [AND]                                                                          
                (3) requires the health care provider to be                                                                     
     compensated  for health  care  services performed  at the  same                                                            
     rate as  the health care provider  has contracted with  another                                                            
     managed care entity.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     New Text Underlined [DELETED TEXT BRACKETED]                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken moved  for adoption.  He announced  that this  bill                                                            
would not be reported from Committee at this hearing.                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson  relayed  his  understanding  that  significant  cost                                                            
shifting  occurs   by  health  care  providers.  He  exampled   that                                                            
hospitals  are unable  to  recover expenses  incurred  from  surgery                                                            
procedures  and  subsequently   charges  higher  amounts  for  other                                                            
services, which  are ultimately shifted  to third-party payers.   He                                                            
asked if the State has  a responsibility to ensure that insurers are                                                            
only  paying for  costs actually  incurred  and not  for  providers'                                                            
unrecoverable debts from other services.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Hall replied  this  is a  philosophical  question  she was  not                                                            
currently  prepared to  answer. She  assured she  would discuss  the                                                            
matter with Division staff  responsible for primary oversight of the                                                            
health insurers and undertake additional research.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson commented this would be a wise choice.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  remarked on the "unfortunate"  circumstances  whereby                                                            
third  party  payers, large  insurance  carriers  and  self  insured                                                            
negotiate with providers  for lower rates, while requiring uninsured                                                            
patients to pay 100 percent.  He also stated that some patients must                                                            
pay the cost recovery of  other services offered by the provider. He                                                            
wanted to ensure  that self-payers get same discount  as third party                                                            
payers.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall responded  that she would further discuss  this matter with                                                            
Senator Dyson.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall testified on the bill as follows.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     The  purpose  of the  bill is  to make  some  changes that  are                                                            
     required  in the  accreditation  process that  the Division  of                                                            
     Insurance   goes  though  with  the  National  Association   of                                                            
     Insurance   Commissioners.  It  also  makes   some  changes  to                                                            
     correspond  with  some  of  the  national  producer   licensing                                                            
     requirements.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     There's  six major areas of change.  One, as Senator  Bunde has                                                            
     pointed out  is electronic communication; the  ability to allow                                                            
     various  communications  for  the  services  we provide  to  be                                                            
     preformed  electronically.  We have  financial  forms that  are                                                            
     filed  electronically  and we're trying  to gradually  increase                                                            
     the ability to communicate with our public in that manner.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
     Second  area  is late  tax  payments.  Currently  we have  some                                                            
     fairly  high penalties  that are mandatory  for late  payments.                                                            
     There are  four sections in the bill that revise  the penalties                                                            
     to make  them more consistent  with the Department of  Revenue.                                                            
     We also add  a new section that is up to $10,000  penalties for                                                            
     willful late payments of taxes.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     The  reinsurance  piece  of  the  bill  is  probably  the  most                                                            
     complex.  It is the  only area of the  bill that I've  received                                                            
     any comments  from industry on. There are two  sections. One is                                                            
     reflected  in Version  "H", it is a  c.s. Originally,  the bill                                                            
     proposed   that  the   Division  of   Insurance  must   approve                                                            
     reinsurance  treaties  that insurance  companies  entered  into                                                            
     with  reinsurance  insurers.  We have  changed  that merely  to                                                            
     require  that they  file their  signed agreements  with us.  In                                                            
     some  financial  examinations,  we've  had  difficulty  getting                                                            
     signed  reinsurance agreements  and we want to be sure  we have                                                            
     those  available  for  our  review  when  we're  reviewing  our                                                            
     domestic insurance companies.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     The forth  area of the bill makes some changes  in licensing to                                                            
     be consistent  with the Producer License Model  Act and federal                                                            
     law.  We've eliminated  some  training licensing;  we've  added                                                            
     crop  insurity  licenses.  We  have removed  some  language  on                                                            
     limited lines that  made it more difficult - they made barriers                                                            
     for Alaskans  to have licenses.  We have required that  surplus                                                            
     lines  brokers also  be licensed  as producers.  These  license                                                            
     agreements  don't have  any particularly  strong impact  on our                                                            
     current  group  of  agents  but  they  do bring  us  more  into                                                            
     compliance with federal national areas.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     The fifth area that  I'd like to address briefly is the surplus                                                            
     lines  area.  There  are  several  sections  dealing  with  the                                                            
     surplus  lines  and  without  going  into a  lot  of  technical                                                            
     discussion,  I would like to point out that these  are based on                                                            
     a  task force  that met  over  the summer.  We had  a group  of                                                            
     surplus lines brokers,  both from Alaska and from out of state,                                                            
     come  in and work  with the  Division staff  and each other  to                                                            
     streamline  the process of surplus  lines. Basically  a surplus                                                            
     lines company  is a company that is not under  a requirement to                                                            
     file their forms and  taxes. We talked about document coverage,                                                            
     what types of documents  needed to be given to the consumer. We                                                            
     placed some  additional responsibility on brokers  to make sure                                                            
     the  consumer receives  notice of their  responsibility.  There                                                            
     are  certain-what  we call disclosures,  given  in the  surplus                                                            
     lines arena,  which require surplus lines brokers  to make sure                                                            
     the  consumer  understands   the  nature  of  a  surplus  lines                                                            
     placement that is  not subject to form and rate filing, it also                                                            
     is  not covered  by the guarantee  association.  And that  is a                                                            
     requirement in current  statute that we want to make sure stays                                                            
     there and we've added another layer to that.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     The  last  major  section   I'd  like  to  address  deals  with                                                            
     fraudulent  activity. Section  40 of the  bill provides  that a                                                            
     person involved  in the prevention and detection  of fraudulent                                                            
     acts  would not  be subject to  civil liability  when filing  a                                                            
     report  or furnishing  information to  others also involved  in                                                            
     prevention  and detection of insurance fraud.  This addition to                                                            
     the  current  statute  would  allow  fraud  investigators  from                                                            
     insurance companies  to communicate with each other. Currently,                                                            
     fraud   investigators   from   one  insurance   company   can't                                                            
     communicate  with fraud investigators  from a second  insurance                                                            
     company without  fear of some kind of prosecution.  They end up                                                            
     doing that through  our office. Company "A" comes to us, thinks                                                            
     that  there's fraud involved  in a policy,  [and] asks  that we                                                            
     get  information  from Company  "B".  We'd like  to  facilitate                                                            
     communication to help prevent fraud in insurance in Alaska.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Those  are the six major areas.  As I said, I won't  go through                                                            
     all 28 pages. I would  be happy to entertain questions. But the                                                            
     general overview of  the entire bill is to bring Alaska more in                                                            
      line with the NAIC requirements and model regulations.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  questioned, if this is "cleanup" legislation,  why it                                                            
was   not   submitted    prior   to   the   current   gubernatorial                                                             
administration.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall clarified  the bill is "cleanup" in that  it is intended to                                                            
conform to national  changes. She was unable to speak  to actions of                                                            
the prior  administration,  although she noted  that changes  to the                                                            
NAIC  reinsurance  language  were  recent,  as  well  as  new  areas                                                            
identified  that need  additional  oversight. She  also stated  that                                                            
changes to federal  regulations must be complied with.  She informed                                                            
that  this  legislation  would  provide  "a  more  stable,  stronger                                                            
oversight ability."                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  asked whether any opposition has been  voiced to this                                                            
legislation.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall told  of the two hearings this bill received  in the Senate                                                            
Labor and  Commerce Committee  in which no  one appeared to  testify                                                            
and noted the absence of  any testifiers at the present hearing. She                                                            
relayed  she  has  received  two  "areas"  of  comments,  one  which                                                            
resulted  in the committee  substitute and  the other matter,  which                                                            
she  determined  should  remain  in  the  legislation  as  it  would                                                            
strengthen the  Division's oversight and ability to  ensure solvency                                                            
in reinsurance agreements.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  clarified that industry is not in opposition  to this                                                            
bill.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall  qualified that  parties have not  "jumped up and  down" in                                                            
support  of the legislation,  but  none have  objected or  testified                                                            
against it or contacted her to voice concern.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator   Olson  referenced   concerns  with   insurance   companies                                                            
discontinuing  operations in  Alaska and asked  if any provision  of                                                            
this  bill  would  give  incentive  to  insurance  companies  to  do                                                            
business in Alaska.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall replied  she was unaware  of any. She stressed the  need to                                                            
attract more insurance companies to do business in Alaska.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson asked  the  extent of  insurance fraud  committed  in                                                            
Alaska.  He  assumed  most  fraudulent   activity  is  committed  by                                                            
providers rather than insurance companies.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall  informed  that the  Division  receives three  to four  new                                                            
reports   of  activities   each  month.  She   told  of  the   fraud                                                            
investigators  operating within the  Division. She stated  that most                                                            
cases  involve  consumers,  and  exampled  claims  for damage  to  a                                                            
vehicle  that  occurred  prior to  the  purchase  of a  policy.  She                                                            
asserted that  fraud affects the rates  charged to other  consumers.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  asked if the Division  therefore does not  experience                                                            
many fraud cases involving providers.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall affirmed, noting that it is a small percentage.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green  commented  on  the timeliness  of  this  bill.  She                                                            
extolled  Ms.  Hall's many  years  of experience  in  the  insurance                                                            
industry stating she is  likely the most qualified Division director                                                            
to serve in the position.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green  told of expanded fraud investigation  efforts of the                                                            
past several years  at the national level involving  a consortium of                                                            
huge corporations  and  the Federal  Bureau of  Investigations.  She                                                            
predicted these  efforts could impact Alaska, although  not directed                                                            
at this State.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Wilken  objected   to  adoption   of  Amendment   #1  for                                                            
clarification.  He noted it is drafted  to the original legislation                                                             
and asked  if it  is applicable  to  the Senate  Labor and  Commerce                                                            
committee substitute.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
JANET SIETZ,  Staff to Representative  Norm Rokeberg, testified  the                                                            
amendment applies  to the committee substitute. She  stated that the                                                            
change of  "and" to "or"  in the existing  statutory language  of AS                                                            
21.07.010(b)  would clarify  that none of  the three provisions  are                                                            
allowable.  She noted that  current language  could be construed  to                                                            
imply that so  long as all three provisions are not  present, one or                                                            
two would be allowed.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green  asked the  definition  "participating  health  care                                                            
provider" and "managed care entity" stated in the amendment.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sietz  exampled  that a  doctor or  dentist would  qualify  as a                                                            
provider  and stated  that  managed care  entity  would include  the                                                            
organization  that provides  vision  care services  to the State  of                                                            
Alaska.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green  asked what other parties are managed  care entities.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sietz  replied that  insurance contracts  where the provider  is                                                            
signing up  to participate in program  that offers patients  certain                                                            
benefits. This,  she said, prevents  the provider from being  forced                                                            
by the  managed care entity  to accept all  the products offered  by                                                            
the provider.  She stated this gives health care providers  a choice                                                            
in what services it would provide.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green asked  if  this relates  to the  preferred  provider                                                            
organization (PPO).                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson  asked  if  the  language  would  pertain  to  health                                                            
management organizations (HMO).                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sietz replied that no HMOs operate in Alaska.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Olson asked if  this would  change in  the future and  HMOs                                                            
would begin to operate in the State.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sietz  characterized "managed  care entity"  as a "term  of art"                                                            
utilized in the language of this bill.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green  asked  if  "managed  care  entity"  is  defined  in                                                            
statute.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Hall relayed  that  as  she discussed  Amendment  #1  with  the                                                            
Division's  lead life and health actuary  staff, it was agreed  that                                                            
the intent was to attempt  to stipulate that the contracts would not                                                            
be required  of  providers.  She noted  the specific  instance  that                                                            
prompted this  amendment related to a vision plan.  She stressed the                                                            
Division  does  not support  requiring  a  provider to  provide  all                                                            
available services in order to have a contract with an insurer.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken  asked if  the  Division  supports or  opposes  the                                                            
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Hall answered that the she supports the amendment.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sietz cited  the definition of managed care in  AS 21.07.090(10)                                                            
as  "…includes  insurer,  hospital,  medical  service organization,                                                             
health maintenance  organization,  employer or employee health  care                                                            
organization,  managed care contractor that operates  a managed care                                                            
plan, or a person who has  a financial health care services provided                                                            
to an individual."                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson asked if  any input has been received from health care                                                            
providers  on  this  amendment,   as  he  perceived  this  to  offer                                                            
protection to health care providers.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sietz  replied this amendment  was submitted  at the request  of                                                            
some  health  care  providers.  She referenced  a  letter  from  Dr.                                                            
Faulkner [copy  not provided,] indicating that the  current language                                                            
is onerous.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator Olson  wanted a more specific example of organizations  such                                                            
as  the dental  society,  Alaska State  Medical  Association,  nurse                                                            
practitioner group, etc.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Sietz  informed that  Dr. Falkner is  Executive Director  of the                                                            
Alaska Optometric Association.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken  withdrew  his objection  to  the adoption  of  the                                                            
amendment and it was ADOPTED.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken ordered the bill HELD in Committee.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     CS FOR SENATE JOINT RESOLUTION NO. 3(JUD)                                                                                  
     Proposing an amendment to the Constitution of the State of                                                                 
     Alaska relating to an appropriation limit and a spending                                                                   
     limit.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
This  was the  seventh hearing  for this  resolution  in the  Senate                                                            
Finance Committee.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  outlined Amendment #5 and Amendment  #6. He explained                                                            
that   Amendment   #5   would   repeal   the  appropriation    limit                                                            
constitutional  amendment in four years and that legislative  action                                                            
and voter approval  would be required to reenact the  provisions. By                                                            
contrast,  he  stated  that  Amendment  #6  would  also  repeal  the                                                            
language  adopted by  this  resolution, but  provides  that in  four                                                            
years  the  Constitution  would  revert   to  the current   language                                                            
providing for  an appropriation limit,  which he noted is  no longer                                                            
valid,  and that  the existing  stipulation  that  one-third of  all                                                            
appropriations must be for capital projects, would be reenacted.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Amendment #5:  This amendment deletes "Reconsideration"  and inserts                                                            
"Repeal"  on page 3,  line 7,  deletes "and  applies thereafter"  on                                                            
line 9, and replaces  the language of Section 30(b)  in Section 3 on                                                            
lines 12-17  of the committee substitute,  Version "B". The  amended                                                            
language reads as follows.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Sec. 3. Article XV, Constitution of the State of Alaska, is                                                                
     amended by adding a new section to read:                                                                                   
                Section 30. Application and Repeal. The 2004                                                                    
          amendment  relating  to an appropriation  limit (art.  IX,                                                            
          sec.  16) first applies to appropriations  made for fiscal                                                            
          year  2006. The 2004 amendment relating to deposits to the                                                            
          budget  reserve fund (art.  IX, sec. 17(d)) first  applies                                                            
          at   the  end  of  the   fiscal  year  2005  and   applies                                                            
          thereafter.                                                                                                           
                (b) Section 16 of Article IX (appropriation limit)                                                              
          is repealed on July 1, 2009.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson moved for adoption.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  objected to allow  the Committee an opportunity  to                                                            
comment. There were no comments and he removed his objection.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
The amendment was ADOPTED without objection.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Amendment #6:  This amendment deletes "Reconsideration"  and inserts                                                            
"Repeal"  on page 3,  line 7,  deletes "and  applies thereafter"  on                                                            
line 9, and replaces  the language of Section 30(b)  in Section 3 on                                                            
lines 12-17  of the committee substitute,  Version "B". The  amended                                                            
language reads as follows.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Sec. 3. Article XV, Constitution of the State of Alaska, is                                                                
     amended by adding a new section to read:                                                                                   
                Section 30. Application and Repeal. The 2004                                                                    
          amendment  relating  to an appropriation  limit (art.  IX,                                                            
          sec.  16) first applies to appropriations  made for fiscal                                                            
          year  2006. The 2004 amendment relating to deposits to the                                                            
          budget  reserve fund (art.  IX, sec. 17(d)) first  applies                                                            
          at   the  end  of  the   fiscal  year  2005  and   applies                                                            
          thereafter.                                                                                                           
                (b) On July 1, 2009, Section 16 of Article IX                                                                   
          (appropriation  limit)  is  repealed and  readopted as  it                                                            
          read on January 1, 2003.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
This amendment was NOT OFFERED.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
AT EASE 9:39 AM / 9:40 AM                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Amendment #7:  This amendment adds  "and except as provided  in (d),                                                            
(e),  and (f) of  this section"  to  subsection (a)  of Article  IX,                                                            
Section 16 of the Constitution  of the State of Alaska, repealed and                                                            
readopted by Section 1  of the committee substitute Version "B". The                                                            
amended language on page 1, lines 6 - 9 read as follows.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
          Section 16. Appropriation Limit. (a) Subject to (b) of                                                                
     this section,  and except as  provided in (d), (e),  and (f) of                                                            
     this  section, appropriations  made for  a current fiscal  year                                                            
     shall  not  exceed  the average  amount  appropriated  for  the                                                            
     earliest  three of the four fiscal years immediately  preceding                                                            
     that  current   fiscal  year  by  more  than  the  sum  of  the                                                            
     following:                                                                                                                 
     …                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
This amendment also replaces subsection (d) with new language, on                                                               
page 2, lines 23 - 29 to read as follows.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
          (d) An appropriation that exceeds the appropriation limit                                                             
     under  this  section   may  be  made  for  any  public  purpose                                                            
     identified in a declaration  of emergency that is issued by the                                                            
     governor as prescribed by law.                                                                                             
          (e) If the governor declares that an extraordinary                                                                    
     circumstance  exists,  upon the  affirmation vote  of at  least                                                            
     two-thirds  of the members of  each house, the legislature  may                                                            
     pass  an appropriation  that  exceeds the  appropriation  limit                                                            
     under this  section to address the extraordinary  circumstance.                                                            
     The  declaration  shall  identify  the specific  extraordinary                                                             
     circumstance,  specify  the amount  of each  appropriation  the                                                            
     governor  requests, and identify  the time period during  which                                                            
     expenditures under each appropriation will be made.                                                                        
          (f) If the legislature, by law, declares that an                                                                      
     extraordinary  circumstance exists,  upon the affirmative  vote                                                            
     of  at least  two-thirds  of  the members  of each  house,  the                                                            
     legislature   may  pass  an  appropriation  that   exceeds  the                                                            
     appropriation   limit  under   this  section  to  address   the                                                            
     extraordinary   circumstance.  Notwithstanding  Section  17  of                                                            
     Article  II, a  bill declaring  an  extraordinary circumstance                                                             
     passed by  the legislature may not become law  unless signed by                                                            
     the governor.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson moved for adoption.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken objected for an explanation.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
LUCKY SCHULTZ,  Staff to Senator Dyson,  testified that contrary  to                                                            
the provisions  in  the original  version of  this resolution,  this                                                            
amendment would  provide a legislature  to declare an extraordinary                                                             
circumstance.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken gave an example of $100 million Medicaid                                                                        
expenditures as an extraordinary circumstance and asked the process                                                             
to exceed  the spending  limit and appropriate  funding for  unusual                                                            
expenses.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Schultz  explained  that a  two-thirds majority  of both  houses                                                            
must approve  such a declaration  in the  form of an appropriations                                                             
bill. He noted  that unlike regular  legislation, the governor  must                                                            
either veto  a declaration  of extraordinary  circumstances  bill or                                                            
sign it into law,  as it could not become law without  gubernatorial                                                            
action.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman   furthered  that   if  the  governor  vetoed   the                                                            
appropriation  bill or utilized line-item  veto authority  to reduce                                                            
expenditures, a three-quarters  vote of both house would be required                                                            
to override the governor's action.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken stated  that the legislation would be addressed as a                                                            
normal appropriation bill  with the exception of the three-quarters,                                                            
or super majority, vote requirement.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Green  cautioned that this  legislation would create  a new                                                            
"class" that would subsequently  allow the legislature to declare an                                                            
extraordinary  circumstance and is therefore "treading  on dangerous                                                            
ground".  She  relayed  five or  six  examples  have been  posed  as                                                            
situations    that   could   be    constituted   as   extraordinary                                                             
circumstances.   She   did  not   consider   Medicaid  expenditures                                                             
extraordinary.  She was reminded of the legislature's  difficulty in                                                            
changing the definition  of "disaster" in legislation  considered in                                                            
a  previous  session.   She  warned  against  not  clearly  defining                                                            
"extraordinary circumstances".                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  appreciated Co-Chair  Green remarks, sharing  that he                                                            
has  "struggled"  to anticipate  the  situations  that  could  arise                                                            
necessitating  additional funding  than stipulated  by the  spending                                                            
limit. He decided  against changing  the definition of "emergency",                                                             
opting   instead  that   the  governor   should   address   disaster                                                            
declarations as  currently provided. He noted this  is the reason to                                                            
require   a   super   majority   legislative    vote   to   increase                                                            
appropriations.  He informed that the state of Connecticut  has this                                                            
provision  in  its  spending  limit  constitutional   amendment.  He                                                            
qualified that he inadvertently  gave incorrect information relating                                                            
to the system implemented in Connecticut.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Schultz  corrected comments  made at  the previous hearing  that                                                            
the extraordinary  circumstances provision  has not been  invoked in                                                            
the state of  Connecticut. He stated  that the governor has  invoked                                                            
the provision  four times when excess revenues were  appropriated to                                                            
pay off debt incurred in previous years.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  asked if extraordinary expenses could  be contained                                                            
in the  normal operating  budget legislation  with some sections  of                                                            
the bill  requiring  a three-quarter  vote, similar  to the  current                                                            
system in which  a three-quarter vote is required  for some sections                                                            
of the  operation  budget legislation  to  authorize appropriations                                                             
from the Constitutional Budget Reserve (CBR) fund.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator Bunde  commented that Co-Chair Green's concerns  were valid.                                                            
He reminded that the "genius"  of the Alaska Constitution is that it                                                            
did not stipulate  specifics, but  instead provided flexibility  for                                                            
future  legislatures.  Although  he  opposed  a  "loophole"  he  was                                                            
assured  that  the  powers  provided  in  this  amendment  would  be                                                            
limited, and stressed that  future legislatures should be granted as                                                            
least as much confidence as current legislatures are provided.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green  wanted  the  Committee  to  avoid  unintentionally                                                             
defining extraordinary  circumstances in the various  examples given                                                            
during these discussions.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken shared  this concern,  and questioned  whether  the                                                            
stipulation  of a two-thirds  majority vote  itself could provide  a                                                            
threshold of an extraordinary circumstance.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Bunde agreed  with Co-Chair  Green that  the record  should                                                            
reflect that  the examples  used in discussions  on this  resolution                                                            
are  not indications  that  the  current  Senate  Finance  Committee                                                            
considers them to be extraordinary  circumstances. He explained that                                                            
the use  of certain examples  should not  establish a precedence  of                                                            
factors constituting an extraordinary circumstance.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson surmised  that  the provisions  of  an extraordinary                                                             
circumstance could be defined  in statute by either the current or a                                                            
future legislature.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  suggested this could be considered  as a conceptual                                                            
amendment.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson affirmed  this  is an option,  but  he preferred  the                                                            
Committee adopt the current language proposed in the amendment.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken  removed  his  objection  to the  adoption  of  the                                                            
amendment and Amendment #7 was ADOPTED.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SFC 04 # 64, Side B 09:52 AM                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Amendment #8:  This amendment adds  a new subsection to Article  IX,                                                            
Section 16 (c)  in Section 1 of the committee substitute  on page 2,                                                            
following line 21 to read as follows.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
                (9) of money previously appropriated for a different                                                            
     purpose or to a different recipient; and                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson moved for adoption.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken objected for discussion purposes.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson  informed  that  this amendment  is  offered  at  the                                                            
request of the  Murkowski Administration and would  clarify language                                                            
relating to duplicate payments.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
BRUCE TANGEMAN,  Fiscal  Analyst, Division  of Legislative  Finance,                                                            
testified that the current  language refers to interagency receipts,                                                            
and defined  this as general  funds appropriated  to one agency  and                                                            
authority to receive  those funds from that agency  is authorized to                                                            
another  agency. He  stated the  intent is that  these transactions                                                             
should  not  be  counted  twice.  The  amendment,  he  noted,  would                                                            
incorporate interagency  receipts as well as other  funding sources.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator   Dyson   characterized   these   transactions   as   almost                                                            
intergovernmental  transfers  that therefore  should not be  counted                                                            
twice.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Tangeman affirmed.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken  removed  his  objection   and  the  amendment  was                                                            
ADOPTED.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Amendment #9:  This amendment inserts  "Transition" in the  title of                                                            
Section 30  of Article XV of the Alaska  Constitution, in  Section 3                                                            
of the committee  substitute. This  amendment also inserts  language                                                            
in  subsection  (a) of  Section  30 on  page  3, line  9,  following                                                            
"thereafter",  and places the remaining  language of subsection  (a)                                                            
into a new subsection.  The amended language of Section  30, on page                                                            
3, following line 6 reads as follows.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
          Section 30. Application, Transition, and Reconsideration.                                                             
     (a)  The 2004  amendment  relating  to an  appropriation  limit                                                            
     (art.  IX, sec. 16)  first applies to  appropriations  made for                                                            
     fiscal year 2006 and  applies thereafter. However, for purposes                                                            
     of  making  calculations  under  the  appropriation  limit  for                                                            
     fiscal  years  2006 through  2008  it  shall be  assumed  that,                                                            
     excluding  appropriations   listed  under  Section  16  (c)  of                                                            
     Article IX, the amount appropriated for                                                                                    
                (1) fiscal year 2004 equals $3,300,000,000; and                                                                 
                (2) fiscal year 2005 equals $3,400,000,000.                                                                     
          (b) The 2004 amendment relating to deposits to the budget                                                             
     reserve fund (art.  IX, sec. 17(d)) first applies at the end of                                                            
     fiscal year 2005 and applies thereafter.                                                                                   
          (c) If the 2004 amendment relating to an appropriation                                                                
     limit  (art. IX, sec. 16) is  adopted, the lieutenant  governor                                                            
     shall  place the  same 2004  proposition for  amendment on  the                                                            
     ballot every four  years. However, notwithstanding Section 1 of                                                            
     Article XIII, if the  voters reject the proposition, Section 16                                                            
     of  Article IX  shall be  readopted as  it read  on January  1,                                                            
     2003,  and the lieutenant  governor shall  not again place  the                                                            
     2004 proposition on the ballot under this subsection.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson moved for adoption.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken objected for discussion purposes.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson  remarked  this  amendment   would  address  "what  I                                                            
inappropriately" termed  as "fiddling with the base numbers in order                                                            
to get the  results we wanted." He  predicted that the final  budget                                                            
for FY 04 and the amount  approved would likely reduce the amount of                                                            
adjustments  necessary. He  explained this  amendment would  "smooth                                                            
the curve and  eliminate the flat  first two or three years  because                                                            
of the budget reductions  that were done." He relayed this amendment                                                            
is the request of the Murkowski  Administration to allow flexibility                                                            
for the  first years this  spending limit is  in place and  to allow                                                            
for reasonable growth from inflation and population.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Schultz  furthered that the other  states with tax and  spending                                                            
limits,  that  have  allowed  "the   number  to  go  negative"  have                                                            
experienced  economic distress.  Therefore, the  advice has  been to                                                            
never  allow the  "numbers to  go negative"  as  it would  adversely                                                            
impact  the   economy  of  the  State.   Instead,  he  relayed   the                                                            
recommendation that in  years that would otherwise by "negative" the                                                            
"numbers" should be held  at the same level as the previous year. He                                                            
predicted that  Alaska would incur several years of  level spending.                                                            
He referenced  the graph accompanying  the amendment [copy  on file]                                                            
to demonstrate this point.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  asked for clarification  of the information  on the                                                            
graph.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Schultz further  detailed  and  explained the  spreadsheet  and                                                            
graph.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman understood  from discussions at the previous hearing                                                            
on this resolution that  the spending limit would include a two-year                                                            
transition period.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Schultz replied that  the purpose of this amendment is to adjust                                                            
the base year and is in  response to a request by the Administration                                                            
citing that $50 million would not be sufficient.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken  asked how  the  provisions  of Amendment  #10  are                                                            
reflected in the data shown on the graph.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman recalled  two-year growth as adjusted base years. He                                                            
had understood  that the  amounts were  "ratcheting down",  although                                                            
the amendment shows that amounts are the same.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Schultz clarified the  earlier discussion regarding the two-year                                                            
growth period  would be addressed in Amendment #10.  Amendment #9 he                                                            
stated, adjusts the base year amount.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Dyson appreciated  Senator Hoffman's  observation.  Senator                                                            
Dyson stated  that this  adjustment  to the base  year amount  would                                                            
provide  the Administration  with  the  flexibility  for "what  they                                                            
believe  to  be reasonable   budget growth".  He  informed  the  two                                                            
amendments would accomplish the Administration's goals.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken  withdrew  his objection  to  the adoption  of  the                                                            
amendment and Amendment #9 was ADOPTED.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Amendment  #10: This  amendment  deletes  language  and inserts  new                                                            
language in subsections  (1) and (2) of Article IX, Section 16(a) in                                                            
Section  1 of  the  committee  substitute.  Deleted language  is  as                                                            
follows:  page 1,  line  10, "average  annual";  line  12, "for  the                                                            
second,  third and  fourth";  line 14,  "average  percentage of  the                                                            
change in the average personal  income of State residents for"; line                                                            
15, "third, and  fourth"; page 2, line 1, "average  annual"; line 2,                                                            
"for the second,  third, and fourth".  The amended language  on page                                                            
1, following line 5, reads as follows.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
                (1) the percentage rate of change in the Consumer                                                               
     Price  Index   for  all  urban  consumers  for  the   Anchorage                                                            
     metropolitan  area  complied  by a  federal agency  during  the                                                            
     second  and third calendar  years preceding  the calendar  year                                                            
     during which  the immediately preceding fiscal  year began, but                                                            
     not  to exceed  the  percentage  change in  personal income  of                                                            
     State  residents during  the  second and  third calendar  years                                                            
     preceding  the  calendar  year  during  which  the immediately                                                             
     preceding fiscal year begins; plus                                                                                         
                (2) the percentage rate of change in the State                                                                  
     population  during the second  and third calendar years  during                                                            
     which the  immediately preceding fiscal year  began compiled by                                                            
     a State department.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson moved for adoption.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken objected for discussion purposes.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  explained this amendment  would change the  averaging                                                            
based on population and  inflation from three years to two years and                                                            
would provide more rational results.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHERYL FRASCA, Director,  Office of Management and Budget, Office of                                                            
the Governor, deferred to Mr. Tangeman to detail this amendment.                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Tangeman explained  that the bill as is currently  written would                                                            
use  an  average   annual  growth   for  population  and   inflation                                                            
calculated for  three of last four years. This applied  to the base,                                                            
he stated,  gives  a substantially  lower growth  than expected.  He                                                            
gave an example  of population and inflation growth  of four percent                                                            
each  year over  three years,  the average  would  be four  percent,                                                            
which would calculate  at 1.3 percent each year applied  to the base                                                            
year of  FY 03 to  determine the  base amount for  FY 06. He  stated                                                            
this  would total  approximately  $50 million  each  year, which  he                                                            
determined  is too low. The proposed  amendment, he explained  would                                                            
provide  for two  years cumulative  growth.  He assured  this  would                                                            
still be added  to the base year of  FY 03, but would add  8 percent                                                            
growth,  or 2.6 percent,  resulting  in approximately  $100  million                                                            
each year.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Senator  Hoffman  remarked  the intent  of  the amendment  would  be                                                            
correct provided  that inflation increases  each year. He  cautioned                                                            
that if inflation  were to decrease one year, the  growth rate would                                                            
be slower over  a two-year average  than a three-year average  would                                                            
allow.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Tangeman  responded   that  as  the  committee  substitute   is                                                            
currently drafted, the growth rate would be even lower.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman surmised  that growth rate would be higher utilizing                                                            
a three-year  average if the rate  of inflation declined  during one                                                            
year.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Tangeman qualified  that the average growth rate could be lower,                                                            
but the average would be  applied to a base year of three years ago,                                                            
so growth  rate would  be even lower.  He stated  he would  research                                                            
this. He pointed  out the language in the bill that  would not allow                                                            
a decrease  in the amount of appropriated  from year to year,  which                                                            
could address this concern.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken requested  a timeline graph to demonstrate the look-                                                            
back portion.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Frasca  relayed  an  explanation  Mr.  Tangeman   provided  her                                                            
earlier. This  added the cumulative  average of the last  two fiscal                                                            
years to the spending amount of three years ago.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken asked  for an  example  assuming the  plan were  in                                                            
place currently.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Mr.  Tangeman,  Senator  Hoffman and  Mr.  Schultz  determined  that                                                            
population  and inflation  for the years  FY 02 and  FY 03 would  be                                                            
applied to an  average of FY 01, FY 02 and FY 03 for  the base year.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman asked about the stipulation of calendar year.                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Schultz  pointed out that  language on  page 1 line 10  the bill                                                            
pertains  to  the use  of  the fiscal  year  calendar  to  determine                                                            
inflation and  language on line 12  stipulates that population  data                                                            
would be calculated using the calendar year.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken asked how  the spending limit amount for FY 05 would                                                            
be calculated.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Tangeman replied  that federal data on population  and inflation                                                            
for calendar years  2002 and 2003 would be added and  applied to the                                                            
base year average of FY 01, FY 02 and FY 03.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken asked how  the population changes during FY 03 would                                                            
be determined.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Schultz  responded that population  estimates for each  calendar                                                            
year are published in July of that year.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Tangeman  informed that  the Department  of Labor and  Workforce                                                            
Development provides this information.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken asked if  an annual population estimate is therefore                                                            
established then confirmed with the US census every ten years.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken  asked  if  the  inflation   consumer  price  index                                                            
utilized in the calculations would also be an estimate.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Schultz  replied  this information  is provided  at end of  each                                                            
calendar year for that year.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken understood this information is delayed.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Frasca  clarified that  the figures are  finalized in April  for                                                            
the previous calendar year.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken asked how  the legislature would we be able to begin                                                            
drafting a budget in January of each year.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Schultz  responded  that  the look-back  is two  years for  this                                                            
reason.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  understood the population  statistics of  two years                                                            
prior and the  inflation rates of one-year prior would  be utilized.                                                            
He asked how  a budget would be drafted  before the inflation  rates                                                            
are known.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Frasca  corrected  her earlier  statement  and listed  inflation                                                            
rates are  determined in  February, population  rates in March,  and                                                            
personal income data is available in April.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Tangeman  furthered that data  is compiled quarterly,  therefore                                                            
estimates would be available.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  pointed out that the administration  is required to                                                            
complete a budget proposal  by December 15 and that valid data would                                                            
not be available at that time.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Ms.  Frasca agreed.  She  stated that  a  budget would  be  prepared                                                            
utilizing  the estimates.  She  noted this  is currently  done  with                                                            
budgets prepared  using projections  from the Department  of Revenue                                                            
and other sources.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  clarified that if the  amendment is adopted  Co-Chair                                                            
Wilken  is  requesting  a  graph  demonstrating  when  the  data  on                                                            
population   and  inflation  would   be  available.  Senator   Dyson                                                            
expressed the  execution of this spending  limit should be  based on                                                            
the  needs of  Alaska,  and that  spending  limits should  serve  as                                                            
guidelines rather  than determining public policy.  He also stressed                                                            
that available  revenue should not  determine the "upper  limits" of                                                            
the budget.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
Mr.   Tangeman  clarified   that   the  information   utilized   for                                                            
calculations  would  be "compiled  by a  federal  agency during  the                                                            
second and third  calendar years preceding the calendar  year during                                                            
which the immediately  preceding fiscal  year began." Therefore,  he                                                            
concluded  that   the  appropriation  limit  for   FY  05  would  be                                                            
determined  using population  and inflation data  from FY 01  and FY                                                            
02.  He  stated  that  the  data  would  be  finalized  rather  than                                                            
estimated.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Green indicated  she would share  information compiled  by                                                            
staff  demonstrating   that   this  amendment   would  clarify   the                                                            
provision.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair   Wilken   understood   this   amendment    would   provide                                                            
clarification.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Mr. Tangeman concurred.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Senator Hoffman  noted the spending  limit would be partially  based                                                            
on  the capital  appropriation  of  FY 05,  pointing  out that  this                                                            
appropriation  would likely be significantly  less than the  average                                                            
$100  million  general  funds appropriated  in  previous  years.  He                                                            
predicted  this would  create a scenario  in which  would not  allow                                                            
expenditure  of available  funds. He asked  if capital expenditures                                                             
would qualify  as extraordinary circumstances  and if not,  how such                                                            
appropriations would be made.                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
Senator   Bunde   responded   this   resolution    would   implement                                                            
"sideboards" to  provide guidance. He hoped that future  legislators                                                            
would  view this  as such,  but remarked  that past  experience  has                                                            
demonstrated that  the spending limit would be the  base. He pointed                                                            
out that the  price of oil is currently  high and that $200  million                                                            
would  not need to  be transferred  from the  Constitutional  Budget                                                            
Reserve Fund  to balance the budget.  However, he noted that  others                                                            
consider  the  $200  million   to  be new   revenue  that  could  be                                                            
appropriated to fund education.                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken  withdrew  his  objection  and  Amendment  #10  was                                                            
ADOPTED.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  indicated that  a new committee  substitute  would be                                                            
drafted to  reflect the changes  in the amendments  adopted  at this                                                            
hearing.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken  recalled that Senator  Bert Stedman had  prepared a                                                            
sensitivity analysis on  the original resolution showing the impacts                                                            
from  population  and inflation  changes.  He  suggested  requesting                                                            
Senator Stedman conduct  a similar analysis on this amended version.                                                            
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair  Wilken asked  if  comparison of  this resolution  and  the                                                            
proposal  under consideration  by the House  of Representatives  has                                                            
been done.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Frasca replied the  Office of Management and Budget is preparing                                                            
to do this. Mr. Gorman                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dyson  informed that although  the House of Representatives                                                             
is considering  a  spending limit  proposal, the  Senate is  further                                                            
into the process and that Representatives are observing the Senate                                                              
process.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken expressed an interest in how bond-rating agencies                                                               
such as Standard and Poor would view the impact of a constitutional                                                             
spending limit.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Wilken ordered the bill HELD in Committee.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
ADJOURNMENT                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
Co-Chair Gary Wilken adjourned the meeting at 10:28 AM                                                                          

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